Interview with James Carville (January 23, 2008)
Imus seamlessly backtracking on Hillary Clinton. Of Course, Imus still thinks HC is SATAN. He opens the door by acknowledging there may be something here. After-all Carville must know something.
Is there a chink in the armor? Is this a classic Iman move? Or is he simply faking?
You decide…
ChanX CliffsNotes
James Carville (01/23/2008)
Imus:Introducing a Chuck Fav and I-Fav; James Carville.
Carville:I’m a friend of the family, not working for Hillary. Went to Las Vegas, offer an observation or two along the way.
Carville:Running for President is a big endeavor, being President is a big endeavor. People get all jacked up and cranked up about it and it spills out into the TeeVee. And the public gets to look at it, that’s about what happens.
Carville:(On the Las Vegas Debate) Its politics! Didn’t seem to be any lines crossed. Two people believe in what they are trying to do. Two competitive people. And it showed up. We ought to be celebrating that.
Carville: All this whinny and what’s going to happen and they’re attacking each other… “Oh Shut Up”!
Imus:When I came in the next morning I said that was just despicable, I was the kind of person you just made fun of way over reacted. Bernard reeled me in. One said it was great. Two if your Senator Obama you can’t go in there and be whining about Bill Clinton.
Carville:Don’t whine, Slick (Obama). There’s going to be a lot tougher after Bill Clinton, if your President of the United States.
Carville:People say Ohhh Bill Clinton he’s demeaning himself. Oh Shut Up! These people should all go take a wet shower.
Carville: Clinton shouldn’t turn it down, he should jack it up. He ain’t got an accelerator, he has a switch and that switch is on right now.
Carville:Clintons are always saved by their enemies. As soon as they get in trouble here comes Ken Starr. Iowa happens everybody, you have Chris Matthews, New York Times, everybody just prematurely breaking out into this great cheer. New Hampshire Democrats say wait a minute, I like these people I don’t want this to happen. Their enemies always rescue them!
Imus: Carville is one of the most loyal, decent, moral, ethical people I know. Every time I think Hillary Clinton is Satan (which of course I do) I think but Carville must know something..
Carville: People who know Hillary really love her. Staff turnover is low, people who work for her are just crazy about her. She is a genuine warm person. Hillary is not frivolous does not take things lightly. At the core is a remarkably warm, bright person who takes things seriously. Think that is important to have in a person, I really do.
ChanX…Great Post.
One BIG question: Why is he (Carville) politically distancing himself from the “Inner Circle ” of Hillary, as is his buddy Paul Begala ?….That is interesting to me. What my take on the whole scenario is that they both instinctively know Hillary IS a “Flawed Candidate”…as Karl Rove once claimed. They can also see what is happening, where the polls are heading…and where the CASH flow is now going….to Obama.
As was discussed on the IITM show today….if Hillary looses California …She is done. What Obama has now, that Hillary doesn’t…is huge momentum.
Fortunately, what Obama DOESN’T have that Hillary DOES…is Bill Clinton. He is literally killing her campaign…as if she couldn’t do enough damage by just being Hillary Clinton.
McCain is looking more, and more…like the lock up for the Republican party…
My prediction for November: McCain and Obama.
Carville has that “friend of the family” status, providing advice and jetting off to key primaries. Surprised he’s not playing a bigger role with the Clintons. But then again with all the international work Begala and Carville took on maybe they both have become to expensive for the Clintons.
I have found it very interesting over the past 2 weeks. Imus saying there must be something there with regards to the Clintons. More recently Imus saying he could vote for either Clinton or Obama.
Tomorrow is a key day for McCain. He needs to break away from the pack. Toobin brought up a good point regarding Rush today. How does Rush backtrack? Seems ridiculous that Rush would not support McCain who has a lifetime American Conservative Union rating of 82%. What are the options? Hillary and Obama are both rated in the single digits.
More fun then we can all imagine…
Donald, ThanX for the compliment.
Is “moonwalking” a euphemism for a**kissing? We all know Imus does that forever and a day…doesn’t mean he’ll endorse, support, or vote for someone. Look at how polite he is to Huckabee when he’s on, then as soon as he’s off, we’ll hear how crazy Imus thinks he is, and how he liked him better fat!
For those with longer histories, what is the precedent for Imus bashing a candidate mercilessly, then flipping and endorsing them?
Who knows what we’ll hear about “Satan” from the cowboy’s lips ‘twixt now and the ‘rection…? It’s all part of his “out loud thinking process” that we all are privileged to participate in…it’s great radio, isn’t it? That’s what I missed for eight months.
Imus & the Erection/Election ‘Moonwalking’ & leading the Freak Parade. Woohoo! So glad – he’s back on-air – in time for November ’08. Can’t ya just imagine the fodder given him, for this feast, called a campaign? Why, ya might even call him a ‘radio troll’. Too funny – cause he almost LOOKS like one. I love the guy. He’s one of a kind. Thank-God! 🙂
…LOL….ChanX, almost forgot to answer your question:
“Is there a chink in the armor? Is this a classic Iman move? Or is he simply faking? ”
Imoho…Imus will be pulling the McCain lever come November.
This is from ImusPipes Mash, Deirdra’s latest greening article, dig who else is green.
http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/deirdre-imus-47020408?src=rss
Ree:
I saw “who else is green”…
Did you see “what else is green”? LMAO….
The “Green And Sexy Valentine’s Lingerie Advertisement” at that site…
I was AFRAID to click on that one…..LOL
Re this morning’s Bo Dietl appearance, I hope the “pig thing” was a put-on, or I hope Deirdre gets all over him…
I also find the Natalee Holloway-schtick unfunny (well, Bo wasn’t the only one participating in that)…the JoranUrinepeepeepoopoo-thing…she is still mourned here, and some of us have same-aged daughters, and now the kid is an admitted liar, so why should we believe anything he says (Joe, let him go – he’s a bad client) ..the problem with Bo is he’s such a buffoon, he can’t be taken seriously even when he’s trying to make a valid point.
Donaldinks,
Bamboo knits- honest and organic cotton and safe dyes, I hadn’t heard of the bamboo trend yet.
Hahaha
hemp/silk panties come in a recycled gift box. I wasn’t afraid to check it out!
If I find out that he did test on pigs, Bo’s gonna hear from ME!
And, it won’t be pretty!
Good Afternoon All,
Channel has done a magnificent job as usual. James Carville is on the A list as outlined in the NYT’s article and is an I-Fav.
Boston’s WTKK loves Imus. I am not sure of how they feel today regarding the Patriots loss to the Giants but that is another subject.
Loving everyone’s comments here and glad to see Stdomsgrl back in the fold on both sites. And in deference to BTV on Imus Truth, I wish her the best after her horrible ordeal over the weekend. Health and emergencies are not things that should be laughed at or ridiculed. Pass this along from me to her.
More later on a possible off site feature which will not impede this great sites contributions to the I-Mans World and increasing popularity among the old listeners and new.
Bruce: Why, Thank-You for your kind words. You’re such a tried & true I-fan & an interesting persona & outspoken as well. I enjoy reading whatever you post. I’m not lock-step in agreement always – but you never are dull!
Bruce: I was outraged in April – as you & other I-Fans were – but I was not able to make the trip in June to New York & MSNBC in protest. Couldn’t – due to health & financial reasons. I followed the saga here at home. I’m trying to remember all of your names – can’t. Were you one that made the trip? Not sure how many fans were there outside the window.
Opoor says we girls can change our minds…oh goodie…
Was Opoor saying women are fickle? This should be reported to MMFA and NOW-NYC for immediate action…
I’m sooo confused, who am I suppose to follow blindly ? Oprah I didn’t get the memo fire somebody! N.O.W. why won’t you return my emails, when I address the email Dear Angry Shrews, I mean it in the good way 😉 You know Shakespear’s taming of the shrew, it’s like a classical reference. Cause you all are such class acts NOT!
On a Imus note I like that Imus’s ole buddy Bob Sherman is listening and sending them feedback, there are folks lookin out for them.
Stdomsgrl,
Yes I have been an outspoken person. Sometimes crossing the barrier of preaching and being an advocate of the Imus show no matter what.
But deep inside I am a person who is not TRULY a Git as you would call it.
What I said earlier was from my heart to all that have attacked me including BTV. You can take that to the bank and the check will not bounce. You can ask anyone here.
We are now at the precipice of a great opportunity to see the I-Man shine and be almost as he was pre-April. This a new Imus but not really. Just toned down to the more important subjects of life. He is the “MAN”.
No I did not make the trip to New York for many of the same reasons as you. In Spirit I was.
Thank you SDG… It’s nice to have a free voice at Imus Times. Thank the wonderful leaders we have, not me.
Bruce: No way would you be a git in my book! 🙂
SDG
Happy things are back to normal with you and ImusTruth. Don’t be a stranger.
ChanX
For anyone concerned about McCain’s conservative chops heres a letter from Bob Dole to Rush Limbaugh outlining Macs Credentials. Bob Dole Letter Click Here
Esp interesting is the comparison of the voting record of Jesse Helms juxtaposed with John McCain’s.
The letter by Robert Dole to Rush Limbaugh regarding John McCain is very compelling. I have not listened to Rush for over a week now but it seems he, Hannity and Levin are dead against his nomination to be the next President.
At first I began to believe what Rush, Hannity and Levin said. But since that time have learned more about John McCain other than the obvious.
Whether this man is 71 years old or 47 he has the experience. Just wish one thing that his speeches were more forceful.
Going against a Hillary or Obama will be a formidable task for anyone on the Republican side of the isle. But find it paramount that we consider the alternative.
I have not made my personal decision yet. But truly believe if McCain is the nominee it will be up to his VP appointment that will be the tie breaker.
Excellent find. But who better to find something like this than you.
If you get this I will be happy.
This is not a PodCast
http://cache.pando.com/soapservices/Package/package.pando?id=CBE80A41E0F21906C4E1F4356F2BC7CD5970809A&key=62338AD91A47119AF28673255CB6BCCDFBFC55BCBAD2F957052840AAE93C6A15
Sorry for the redundacy….. The Pando link is being published on my blogger.
http://bvb720hasthoughts.blogspot.com/
You can get them there without me publishing the link here. Look for it daily.
Thanks.
Do not understand the rational of “Conservatives” like Rush, Levine and Severin sitting out Prez election if McCain is elected. Impact to the party will cascade throughout the ticket. Senate, Congress, State and local elections will all be skewed towards Democrats. Given the power of incumbency it will be decades before the Republicans regain the ground lost.
Boys & Girls – Mardi Gras ~ Today is Fat Tuesday in New Orleans ~ lets never forget Katrina. Bless the high spirited good people of the city. Lets not forget ~ after Lent ~ that New Orleans is still suffering.
How can we forget STG…. That storm could have made a right turn and destroyed the area I live in. New Orleans is under water as it is. This was a true disaster.
The population now is 60 percent less then prior to that direct hit.
There is a Poll on Jay Severin’s interview on Imus this morning regarding him not wanting to vote for McCain if Romney does not win.
http://imus.969fmtalk.mobi/2008/02/05/imus-in-the-morning-guest-jay-severin–2508.aspx?results=1
Sevrin’s a moron. Most of what he’s saying is a straight out lie. His loyalty is to the issues, yet he picks a candidate who flips more than hillary flops.
I’m sorry but I-Mus interupting the interview to buy bagels for the cast is to funny. The greatest interviewer/ bagel buyer in the history of radio.
I liked the Jay Severin interview this morning, I left a comment on the blog. I like STEVE, look I don’t want Imus having on alot of people who agree with him a love fest over one presidential canidate is not compelling radio or tv. Imus always ends the interview inquiring into Jay’s romantic life…needling him why is that? I mean I think it is funny I think Jay Severin is just waiting for what he knows is comming. I think they have an on running joke with each other off air.
This is a link to Villianous Company, Cassandra has a problem with MMFA too, imagine it just isn’t us. When ever a Joke doesn’t work and you are a white male in this country, you better watch your kneck. I mean I have heard comedians say drama is easy but comedy is hard…I didn’t realize just how risky trying to be funny is for the white man in America.
http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2008/02/nope_still_noth.html
Oh I love Tony’s black history segments all month, those are jewels. Thomas Jefferson’s “Great Experiment” continues. I recall a rumor Jefferson himself contributed to Black History Month GRIN. I hope Tony doesn’t leave him out. Tommy loved his mocha china 😉 Moniticello cemetary, some of the descendent’s of the Jefferson family, still trying to stop some of Jefferson’s descendents, to be laid to rest next to their progenitor. Old joke: they’er dying to get in.
There is a link to Famous Frontline Familys on the DNA results of Sally Hemming’s descendents. You know Sally came with Jefferson’s wife to Monticello, and it is thought that Sally was related to Jefferson’s wife…I need to go find that link after all this is Black History Month. The Jefferson – Hemming story is so interesting one of my favorite historical research reads. It also lends itself to all kinds of comedic material.
Did I just spell neck – kneck, geeze more coffee please.
This is a link to the DNA testing for the descendents of Sally Hemming there is probably something more up to date but boy you can see there is a controversy going on inside the Jefferson clan.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
The ongoing on argument is that Jefferson had two nephews living at monticello at the sametime, and either one of them could have been the father of some of Sally’s children. The problem is an it was reported that one of her sons was a Butler in the house and if you looked at him he was a replica of Jefferson a tanned replica but the documents from the time period, stated there was a stong family resemblence.
McCain Conservative Chops
Bob Dole You Decide 2008
Dole went on to say he disagreed with McCain-Feingold and made the point the immigration legislation was not much different then the bill signed by Reagan.
The comparison with “Mr. Conservative” Senator Helms’ voting record with regard to voting with presidents telling. The Senate analysis shows McCain voting more consistently with the party and supporting Republican Presidents then Helms!
Wish Imus had the Bob Dole letter with him this morning to challenge Sevrin with, but there you go!
I’d like my Bagle toasted with cream cheese – pleeeZe
ChanX
ChannelXRFR,
“moonwalking” — interesting way to put it. Yeah, I’ve noticed he’s been dancing around Hillary. Maybe he’s just playing with us?… keeping us off balance?…..he said today he would probably vote in the Democratic Primary today. Well, that’s what I understood him to say. Was he thinking out loud again? He would vote for Obama, unless he decides to vote for Hillary.. ha
Hey, I wouldn’t mind I-man giving ME his American Express card to go after bagels… LOL ….he might not ever get his bagles.. ha
Bernie — in re: to I-man on radio stations -“spreading like a virus”….love it.. LOL..
Ginger
G,
This is classic Imus. The audience Imus inherited with WABC has a unique conservative/liberal makeup. Coupled with his WFAN audience Imus is playing this wonderfully.
There are a lot of bagle places on the way over to Fifth Avenue. You could do alot of damage very quickly on that bagel run!
X
Ginger,
Didn’t Lou respond yeah a killer virus. I know I shouldn’t enjoy the technical snuffus but it is funny.
I don’t get the question Leslie got at the station. How many Black guest have they had on? Is he supposed to have a quota? Is there some pound of flesh he is supposed to be forking over? I never agree with him about the firing. I agreed with the 2 week suspension. I agree with D.L Hughley, I might add he has it going on. I watched him on Glenn Beck, awhile back, now either D.L. is really smart or sitting next to Glenn Beck makes everybody look smart or both. D.L. made an observation about Libertarian ideaolgy, I had never given much thought to and afterward I was like, he’s right. D.L Hughley is sharp.
Ree:
You are correct. D.L. Hughley Is extremely smart…
…and ANYBODY sitting next to Glenn Beck will also appear extremely smart.
ChanX: Your take on Bob Doles’ letter to Rush was spot on. Severin, Rush, and those that are opposing McCain, whether they know it now…or don’t care (which is really something to ponder morally and politically) are playing into the concept of completely fracturing the Republican Party…and at this point in history, it is the last thing they should be doing.
They better get behind the MAJORITY of Republican thinking in this point of time…and get away from the lunatic fringe. To do otherwise…is political suicide.
Rush, Severin, Levin have locked on a few issues and refuse to look beyond those issues.
There is a lot of healing to be done. Most of the injuries inflicted by the talking heads, with charges and counter charges. Thinking aloud “will the party be able to heal ’08 regardless of the candidate?
Well I am sitting in invasion central “Texas” so excuse me if I don’t jump on Juan McCain’s bus straight to Amerimexico. John McCain won’t do anything about the what I call the Grass Fire and the media calls the Prarie Fire, he started with Juan Hernandez as an unpaid volunteer on his campaign, his connections to LaRaz if John McCain, was trying to fire up the base he did a really good job. I want to get to that Doris Kearns Goodwin place, the one where she wouldn’t kill herself if John McCain was elected President. Right now I am rooting for Obama, oh please Jesus take the wheel.
Meanwhile I posted this on Imus Truth it is really too funny, I remembered it because I was thinking about the perception of the canidates and their wives in the file footage we have been saturated with, which I might add is a marketing tool. Sharon Stone – Hillary’s sexuality intimidates men.
http://polisat.com/Basic_Instinct.htm
One more thought to ponder:
Do you seek a candidate that encompasses a small portion of a party to further an agenda….
…or do you seek out a candidate that can keep the “traditional” values of the majority of the party, one that can appeal to swing voters, members of the opposite party, and win?
I am completely at a loss as to why, in the times we are living in, that people cannot look towards healing this Nation on moral and honest principles…and get over what, in the last 12 years has become as close to a “civil war” mentality among all Americans in our Nation. What has become of us? What has caused it?
We truly, in our time need a “uniter, not a divider”…which, incidentally…George W. Bush laid claim to as HIS persona in 2000… and then went on to preside over the loss of common sense and the comradeship of the common people of our Nation. In 8 “short” (to me, an eternity) years…this administration has laid waste to all voice, reason, and honest discussion.
THAT time…for reason, honest discussion and the change of mindsets…as truly come of age…is sorely been neglected.
I hope that the people of our Great Nation have reached that much needed “wake up call”, .. and will get out, “en masse” …and let their voices be heard…and to Hell with those singular voices that have, in the past, stoked all the fears, hatred and decisiveness…and completely ostracize them…and get on to making this country, again, what it was once designed by our forefathers to be: a “grand experiment of freedom”, for all peoples, beliefs, and common goal…and looking out for ALL AMERICANS was number one. That means…ALL of us. God help us.
This is the UTube link to the db51 post on
“Imus Preps For LV Debate” (1/15/2008) posted here at Imus Times. Why he chose to post it there, well…that was his decision…for whatever reason.
This UTube presentation is hosted by Alex Jones interviewing Willie Nelson on February 5th, 2008…today.
Willie Nelson, IMOPO is a a national treasure, and can be found on the upcoming Imus Ranch C.D.
Willie may have a propensity towards smoking ” Green Lingerie” Hemp materials….LOL…but interesting…none the less.
Just recently posted…and interesting…whatever party you belong to…the last word…we are all Americans that need to wake up. UTube link below:
In 2000 the election was stolen with the help of the Nixonian Rehnquist. Then Bush etal brought Lady Liberty to her knees when he rifled her Treasury – brought the oil men into Cheney’s office & then invaded Iraq – all the while – his doting pearl wearing mother Barbara looked on with a broad smile. It’s done – It’s 8 years later – now what do we do? Oh, by the way when Katrina struck & the poor of New Orleans were displaced, Barbara said ‘some of those people are living in better conditions, than they had’. Nice. What empathy!
A background on Alex Jones…From Wikpedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio)
Damn Wickpedia…LOL here is the correct link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio%29
Although I would point out if Gore had won his home state Tennessee, he would have won the election. And if the South Florida Democratic machine hadn’t played so fast and loose with election laws the whole mess would never had happened. How did the South Florida politicians know Gore needed a couple thousand more votes. Sure the old boys would have served em up… Old tennis saying “play the lob, die by the lob”
Regarding New Orleans Bush-Clinton raised more than $130 million which has been disbursed through out the region.
ChanX: The question begs…WHAT did OUR government DO during the disaster…and afterwards?
“Good Job Brownie?’….
It’s not funny either. It’s PATHETIC that we go and perpetrate what has become the destabilization of an entire region (the Middle East) under a RUSE and not take care of our OWN. That to me, is despicable.
And to all those people that asked during the FIRST gulf war against Saddam…”WHY didn’t we just march into the heart of Iraq and get it over with”…the BEST answer came from (of all people) Richard Cheney who declared (at THAT time) : “that would destabilize the entire region”.
Here is the video…LISTEN to Dick Cheney….
What did the government of Louisiana do? The situaton there is far from resolved. The state and local officials continue to fight over the spoils of recovery. In my everything is Imus world the incompetence of the local officials is what made the “Nagin and Blanco” performances so funny.
Conversely Mississippi has made great progress in recovery. From the day Katrina hit Missippi officials fully engaged with regional and national resources for its citizens. In my everything is Imus world where would we be without RFDs reports on the Master Gardeners Hurricane Katrina Missippi project “The Operation Rejuvenation Swarm”
I’m not defending the Bush Government, certainly they can be faulted for an incompetent start. However Congress did authorized a total of $62.3 billion in aid for victims within a month of Katrina. Over two years later there is enough blame to go around. At this point most of the blame lies at the feet of state and local leaders.
Here is US policy…and in the world today…as it has been for the past decades….READ HISTORY:
From Wold Policy Journal…
http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/articles/wpj03-2/deller.html
…if you take the time to READ history or REMEMBER history: CLINTON and BUSH. WHAT a Difference! …NOT!
No wonder George Bush weeped at the end of his son’s tenure as Governor. The WRONG Bush became president.
IF I can retrieve it…and dammit I WILL …I will show you Richard Cheney during (or before) the FIRST gulf war SHAKING HANDS with the now deceased Saddam…and SIGNING (under scientific research cooperation) GIVING him “The Weapons Of Mass Destruction”. WE GAVE THEM TO HIM! To use against Iran!
HOW MANY countries have we meddled in for “our National Security” and had to go BACK…and REMOVE the VERY BASTARDS WE HELP?
Don’t bother…If you know your HISTORY…you already KNOW.
And so do the families of our fallen brave soldiers that have to “follow orders” under such stupidity.
CHANGE….WE MUST.
stdomsgirl,
Do you mean Laura Bush the first lady or Barbara Bush the President’s mother said, those people were living better then they were before? Either way it would be a really insensitive thing to say to people who were virtually treading water for a week. I had not heard this before, when did Barbara Bush say that? I know her husband George H W Bush and Bill Clinton went down to the coast and set about raising money for the gulf coast.
Ree:
That was Barbara Bush that made the comment STDOMGIRL was referring to.
I will kick in my two cents regarding Katrina and the Iraq War.
Reason why we didn’t go to Baghdad in 1991 was that our mission was accomplished by getting Iraq out of Kuwait. And though Cheney said it was going to create an unstable region was technically irrelevant. Schwarzkopf was ticked off that he didn’t get the green light when we had them by the short ones. We had over 500 Thousand strong at the time and it could have been accomplished once and for all. That is just History now.
Bush made a decision that wasn’t easy but gave Saddam plenty of time to comply with his demands. They were playing cat and mouse with US. And that was ticking off Bush and our people at the time after 911. He did make some strategic errors though. Also remember we still have troops in South Korea more than 50 years after that war.
We are a People that must stand together when we are attacked. And Iraq was a show for others in the region not to play games with the United States at any cost.
Those that want to set a public time table to get out of Iraq are making a critical error. And this falls on the Democrats shoulders. What Jay Severin said was pretty powerful this morning about who he would rather blame if these predictions do come true and a Democrat gets in office.
Those that want us out now are traitors in my opinion. And do not care personally the reason for their dismay at this quagmire we are in. In a strategic sense we cannot win the war. We can only stabilize Iraq. Which is a tall order.
New Orleans is another story. Local officials had more than 2 weeks to prepare and did nothing. Then blamed the Army Corp of engineers and the Federal Government, when all they had to do was make a mandatory evacuation with 7 days to spare. But did zero, zip NADA in that regard.
That is not to say we do not feel their sorrow or pain. It is a most horrific experience to lose everything you ever worked for. And loss of life is more precious then a car or home when you boil it down to the facts.
So again they blame Bush instead of blaming themselves. Nobody gave me a hand out when my house froze up in a terrible winter storm in NJ 1976. But that was small potatoes compared to New Orleans.
In summary we are the “UNITED” States of America. And if we become divided in our beliefs we fall hard.
Could write forever on this subject. But will end here.
Donaldinks,
I can’t imagine what context she would tell people after going through the worse natural disaster in American history, that they were better off?
Ree
Barbara Bush {as Marie Antionette scorned the poor when they had no bread – Marie said let them eat cake – As if they HAD cake} said of the people that came into Texas who fled Katrina & were seeking safe haven – Barbara said ‘some of them are better off’ in an airport in Texas than they were pre-Katrina in New Orleans. Someone must be able to pull up the newcast video/audio & hear her say it once again.
ChannX: you said you were not defending the Bushies – lol methinks thou doth protest too much! I say, America has been BUSHWACKED for 8 years.
Imus said something interesting today, that people probably brushed over. He commented people were unhappy with John McCain for telling them we were going to be in Iraq for decades. Imus, well he should just lie to them like all the other canidates. I agree it is a lie, that we are going to pull out of Iraq, after the next President is sworn in. John McCain is telling the truth. We are hunkered down over those Iraqi Oil fields, we have built a huge Embassy in Baghdad. We are not going any where. All kinds of contracts with American Companys have been signed to pump the oil out. Imus is right, John McCain should just lie like the rest of them. This isn’t what I would like to hear. I would like a different plan for our involvement in Iraq but we live in the era of Petrol Politics.
Bruce:
With all due respect… be perfectly honest and admit…the REASON for Gulf War 1 was accepted by the entire respectable world: We had a plan . We had a coalition (a REAL one)…including most all the other counties in that region. Our mission was precise…and we did an awesome job.
THIS war was NOT. It served NO purpose, it has not unified the Iraqi people…and has done just what Richard Cheney said years ago that it WOULD do.
Bush Jr. opened Pandora’s’ box…and the person that comes into the next Presidential office has one HELL of a mess to clean up….not to mention our OWN country that has been left to neglect.
…and by the way…Richard Cheney’s statement is as relevant today, as when he made it back when everyone asked WHY we didn’t march into Baghdad…
…which, by the way doesn’t even come close to answering WHY we had to go into Iraq in the FIRST place: Biological and Chemical weapons. WE GAVE THEM TO THEM to fight against the Iranians during (probably even before) the Iran/Iraq war.
THAT was who our government chose to side with…and with what.
Now ….we reap the consequences of horrible diplomacy and stupidity….
…as do the families of those brave soldiers.
Ree…I CAUGHT what Imus said. He meant it to…
…as far as Barbara Bushes’ comments…here is a short video:
(disclosure…the actual voice of Barbara Bushes voice is not here…but the quote is)
http://blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?enablejs=true&file=http%3A//blip.tv/rss/flash/525805&feedurl=http%3A//theblimp.blip.tv/rss/&autostart=false&brandname=BLIMPTV.NET&brandlink=http%3A//theblimp.blip.tv/
Re: Saddam – he was a terror in his own sandbox {Iraq} All we had to do was get our best Sharpshooter sniper & take him out with one bullet to the head. We didn’t have to destroy the country & its Museums & infrastructure – oh wait ~ We had to give Cheney’s Halliburton & Kellogg Brown & Root contracts to rebuild what we destroyed & also to supply the troops.
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS – poor thing they went to war because the Commander-in-Chief of lies sent them. Our troops were duped. Tony Blair was duped & as a penance became a Roman Catholic. LOL
That is my point the Democrats are not going to do anything different, they are telling people what they want to hear because they are politicians and they want the power. The only one I give a benefit of the doubt is Obama, that’s because I think he is green on foreign policy. Jay Severin is whipping up the base, that is what they do. Be afraid if a Democrat gets elected. I repeat I don’t vote from fear, there are two more branches of government it isn’t a coronation, the President of the United States has limited power.
We are flanking Iran now, stratigically we can strike them from either Afghanistan or Iraq. No staging, No asking other country’s permission to use their airspace. Iran does not like us on their front porch and back porch. The Arabs do not trust the Persians. Saudi Arabia added what something like 35,000 security folks to their oil fields. There is a military component to all of this. Hugo Chavez has threatened to turn off the oil spiket, he can’t afford not to sell to us. Iran sells alot of oil too. We live in the era of Petrol Politics. I don’t see us leaving the Iraqi Oil fields anytime soon.
I am seeing “your comment is awaiting moderation” on my last post…Hmmmm….
Sorry if my moral outrage in the previous posts were so obvious….
I will sign off for now.
Donaldinks: You are a voice of reason on this site.
Donaldinks: Not to worry – you are the voice of reason on this site. 🙂
This is funny new PSA for imus onair
http://getoffmyphone.blogspot.com/2008/02/hes-not-happy-until-youre-not-happy.html
Donaldinks I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t vent the rest of us do 🙂
Wanted to post this morning, but time was running short. Watched a piece of Morning Joe. Mika really gets disrespected by Joe a lot. Why does she take this treatment from him? He interrupts her. Stares her down when she talks. She’s reduced to just sitting there trying to save face. What gives?
Donald not sure why the comment ended up in moderation. Be assured your moral outrage and opinions are respected. ChanX
SDG,
Our troops are not “poor things”.
These men and women have voluntarily stepped up to and committed to service for us. Your intentions are good but please don’t “poor thing” our troops, it’s disrespectful.
ChanX
Did my civic duty today, and proud that my age-19 daughter cast her first-ever ballot (poll workers congratulated her).
Laree’s history lesson re Jefferson/Hemings serves as a timely reminder that our politics are no better, but no worse than they were from the beginning. The early elections were as dirty and partisan as any in our time – worse, in fact. The Alien and Sedition Acts provided jail terms and fines for any one who uttered or published “malicious” statements against the government or officials (we would get busted here, folks!).
Our Founding Father, Thomas Jefferson was called a coward with “weak nerves” who did not serve in the war, and fled a British raid of Charlottesville. He was called “a howling atheist,” an “infidel,” and a hypocrite who lived like a “feudal baron” while playing “high priest of liberty.” Then there were the still-inconclusive rumors he had fathered slave children with his wife’s half-sister, Sally Hemings. Yadda, yadda, yadda…
In other words, we’ve heard it all before, and we’ll hear it all again.
StDom, I don’t think you quite meant that the way it came out…you were trying to say it was a “poor decision,” one based on lies, etc. on the part of our government, that has put the troops in harm’s way. At least I think that’s what you meant, but you may correct me if I am wrong.
Frec,
In Jefferson’s own writings he tried to figure out mathmatically how long it would take through intermarriages – generational to caucasians for a black person to become white. The idea being the many different designations from mulatto to quadroon to octroon after this point the person would pass the color barrier and become what he mathmatically concluded, they would then be caucasian. Why did he ponder this? Was it guilt? The DNA is part of the research you give it “weight” then you have to look at his documents and his writings. As you pointed out there were political reasons for others to make accusations about him. Jefferson was in deep debt at his death, he owed money to alot of people, and the only slaves that were emancipated when he died were Sally Hemming’s children. Well this isn’t the same kind of political anthropolgy Sharon Stone dabbles in (Hillary is still in her sexual prime so she won’t become President because her sexuality intimidates men) Tom and Sally are still facinating to me.
Frec,
The idea that each generation would marry another caucasian I believe within 3 to 4 generations Jefferson using math decided the descendents would be caucasian. Why did he ponder this? Today they are testing descendents of Sally Hemming, I mean I know Jefferson was a genius but this study must have been for personal reasons, he couldn’t forsee this far into the future, the impact on his modern day descendents could he?
Imus had a big win tonight with the CT, NY and NJ going to John McCain.
Of course Sen Obama decided not to appear on IITM and well there goes NY and NJ. We all make decisions, some good, some bad…
You think “Scrotum Face” is back tracking now, wait untill Wed morning. Hillary has won CA, NY, NJ…and every other major state, Imus now finds himself playing the fool, again. This just proves that no talent, hacks like “Idiot Imus”, “Moron McCord” and “Butt-face Bernie” have ZERO clue what is going on in the real world. While Imus attacks Hillary, America votes for her. It’s going to be great win Hillary gets the nomination, and then mops the floor with that “mummy” McCain…Maybe if Imus is lucky, Hillary will do him the favor of washing her butt real good, when Imus bends over to kiss it in November…HA HA…suck it old man:)
Channel XRFR,
Ya know, I was in NYC last October outside Penn Station. I was killing time, waiting for my daughter to meet me for lunch, and I started taking movies. I’m not sure, but I think I must have been very close to where Imus is broadcasting from now. I think I’ll get my video out and look at it. I was taking lots of movies of the people and busy streets, etc. The point where I was at the time was right across the street from the huge post office. Also it was where all the taxi’s line up. I could look down the street a little and see the “New York Hotel” (or New Yorker Hotel.. not sure).. Well, I’ve just been wondering if I was close to where he is. Next time I go visit my daugther, I’m going to stand outside that window with a big sign that says “love yall” or something creative like that.. ha
Ree, I don’t remember Lou saying “killer virus”, but he most probably did.. ha…yeah, I think all that technical stuff is funny too. Do you think they might embellish that a little?? even though I realize that they have been having legitimate problems. They are getting a treasure chest of laughs from it.. ha
It is always nice to have Devin79 reappear from under his bridge to makes his such eloquent statements.
Thanks so much for a good laugh. I feel very sorry for you.
What in the WORLD was that Karith just said?????? Is Imus in the Morning turning into PBS or something?????
Hi Harley,
I must have missed it. What was she referring to? Her little presentation about trafficl lights or something else?
Her skit was not one of the best .
Yes, the one about the stoplight, elevator and potato chips. Was that a REPEAT??? Wow……….
The RFD scroll this AM is hilarious. Items interspersed with news include…
RFD requesting blood bank donations as a result of Monday’s IITM bloodbath. Bernie requires 3 pints and Bigfoot 5 pints!!!
Roger Clemons fathead not due to steroids… result of massive ego!!!
Hold up. Did I just hear Imus say that he knew that Barack Obama was jumping up and down to get him fired and that he (OBAMA) was right???? Ok I-man, what game are you playing?
Self-effacement is part of the I-Man’s shtick..that’s not new. I think he uses it to good effect. The counter-weight to his giant ego. Don’t worry, the pendulum will swing back other way…
Harley,
Imus said that on the first day back December 3rd. He was just reiterating the same statement with Obama. And frankly Imus likes Obama. But is not worried about him either way.
No games are being played. He (Imus) is true to his word.
If “Imus Times” became an Imus Truth site it would lose many posters. The drivel spoken over there is just too ignorant by so called “Imus Fans” to be repeated here.
Well, I don’t like it when he says crap like that, even if we know the truth…..
Here’s the rationale I don’t get: the reason we are supposed to vote for Barack Obama is to make our enemies abroad like us? (George Steph said to Imus that’s why many people are voting for Obama). Who thinks that will work? Or how long the supposed “halo effect” would last? That’s turning people-pleasing into a “National Character Defect.”
It wouldn’t work either; our enemies hate us only slightly more than they hate each other. They’re never going to like us, no matter how much we try to please them. We need to elect the best and strongest leader for our own purposes, not to try to please the views of the rest of the world. If that’s Barack Obama, fine.
Harley,
IMO “should have been fired” is part of the Imus’ 12 Steps To Serenity…
God grant me the SERENITY to
accept the things I cannot change
ChanX
Don’t worry Harley. You had a point and it is respected by all including me.
I do not equate you with that other site at all.
Just do what I do. Speak your mind.
Super Tuesday results make the baby Jesus cry. 😦
Thank you, Chan. “X” marks the spot.
🙂
Frec: Thanks for your kind words re: my words re: our troops. They’re OUR troops. God Bless them all. 🙂
StDom’s, you are welcome. I get tongue-twisted all the time. Stuff comes out, and I’m going, “Whaaat am I saying????”
People complain (more so “over there”) about posters going “off topic,” but one of the benefits is getting to know one another, and where someone’s heart is.
SDG,
Never any doubts as to where your heart is…
Re: Republican Politics – aint it great that Stephen Colbert gave Mike Huckabee the “Colbert Bump?” Lol 🙂
Frec,
What you said about “Over There” is an intesting way of looking at it. IMO.
But getting to know where someones heart is not how I see it.
I see hate and distrust of our I-Man. If these were my friends I would rather have enemies.
Thankfully there are those “Over There” that keep some in check. But I only mentioned that site because it seems to have gone too far. I am thankful I cannot post there any longer.
My words were my friend when getting banned.
Imus Times is the place to be. Where all points of view are acceptable within reason. And thank Keith and Channel for this great forum.
Hey Bruce,
You make good points. It’s awful that you and Donald were banned…the secret webmaster was indiscriminate in exercising judgment when the discourse got out of control “over there.” But you have turned what hapened to you into a “gratitude moment,” just as Imus has done with his firing. That’s a good thing.
It’s also a good thing we no longer have those Alien and Sedition Laws of the 1800’s. We’d all not only be banned on both sites, our butts would be in jail!
Hey kids – I’m still shaking my head – over the fact that Bruce & Donald got banned ‘over there’ – I honestly can say I didn’t know why then & I still don’t know why today! I go back & forth between these 2 Imus sites because I’m an I-Fan & interested in whats being said about the ‘new’ Imus show. 🙂
BTW: I prefer this Imus site – it’s more stylish. More varied opinion & links to interesting sites.
SDG,
Good point on what is being said about the new Imus show on both sites. With two sites there are multiple discussions of Imus topics running concurrently. Keith is responsible for the layout and the editoral direction of ImusTimes. He is a “Free Speecher” who encourages diversity of opinion in an unthrottled environment. Keith deserves all the credit.
Don’t understand why Bruce and Donald were banned form ImusTruth either. If you go back and look at the days leading up to the ban, Bruce had a large number of commenters supporting him. Obvious now – the whole situation was a setup instigated by whoever for whatever reasons…
Well my hope is ImusTruth reconsiders the policy on censorship and opens the site once again. Would be a nice Valentine gesture.
ChanX
As noted by Imus, today is the birthday of Aaron Burr (3rd U.S. Vice President, served under Thomas Jefferson). He was in the thick of things during the “Alien and Sedition” times. We all know what happened when Alexander Hamilton said something Burr didn’t like – he challeneged him to a duel, and shot and killed him! So things have gotten a little better these days 🙂
Another “X” on the spot, ChanX. I can’t speak for Bruce or Donald (they take care of themselves quite well), but I wonder if they would even go back there if they could. Still, it would be a redemptive gesture by the secret webmasters. We were all injured by their injudiciousness.
This is a link to Marty’s blog, on it she states Obama beat Clinton in delegates and he also won Missouri. So whoever posted the Hillary Bull Dance scenario further up the thread. It ain’t over till it’s over. Check out my comment on this blog.
http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2008/02/crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon.html
Sorry this blog.
http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2008/02/hillarys-faustian-bargain.html
Frec,
Good points, Bruce and Donald may not go back. Regarding the injured, there was a definite change in the mix of commenters on ImusTruth as a result of the banning. Noticed some commenters have left and some have reduced the frequency of comments.
ChanX
Obama claims delegate lead.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8358.html
Does anybody know wher there’s a track list for the ranch album? I keep hearing who’s on and stuff but I’d love to see a complete track list.
I think my boy eas wrong, he couldn’t take care of himself, he seems to be gone.
Nietzche was right God is dead. Need proof? More Imus in the Morning on the way.
PTB
Hey Imus,
I found Harold Ford Jr., all check out Spud’s blog title a lighter moment …Spud trying to check if we are paying attention?
http://insidecable.blogsome.com/2008/02/05/super-tuesday-a-lighter-moment/
You’re right about that, ChanX. They lost a lot of posters, but more than that, they’ve lost the freedom of expression they’re supposed to stand up for.
I have no sour grapes about them personally. They haven’t banned me (yet), so they’re still having to put up with me, and I feel free enough to say what I think, for the most part, without meaning to be mean. I think others should have that same freedom.
PT, I didn’t think I’d miss the kid, but I do. Must’ve gotten salmonella on PBJ’s from the dumpster.
I disagree. I think Imus Truth is as good as ever. Better all the time actually. IMHO. I’ve been reading that site since last April. It’s too bad about Donald being banned, but, sorry Bruce, you were obnoxious. You seem tamer on this site. I don’t mind different pov’s of the show. Both sites are great. I don’t notice they’ve lost a lot of posters. In fact there are more now, and that’s a good thing. I hope this site doesn’t turn negative. A lot of you take yourselves too seriously. It’s not about which site is better. It’s about Imus!
Frec,
I have no sour grapes either. There are a number of good people commenting at ImusTruth and I enjoy reading the comments. This site is keeping me fairly busy, so I haven’t jumped in at ImusTruth. Always happy when people drop by here to say hello or jump in with a few comments.
ChanX
BTW: Avatars Are Not Required. Fun for some, but not for all…
And then we should put just one more cow in their bed.
IloveImus,
I agree with Channel. But obnoxious I was not. When you have people personally attacking you, you attack back.
Your opinion is valued here. But believe you are wrong about me.
And I am no different here then I was on Imus Truth. It just it is not required to defend myself.
Make a note of that.
I will Bruce. But, I do remember you egging a lot of people on. You attacked me on a couple of occasions because I had a different opinion than you.
Thank you IloveImus. You are a true Imus Supporter.
This isn’t a discussion over which sites are better. It’s a discussion relative to the Imus sites. Each site serves a purpose offering different perspectives.
IMO: There are no restricted topics at ImusTimes (with the exception of XXX spam) comments are neither moderated or removed. Once in awhile comments do get hung up in the spam filter, which is easily remedied.
Does Charles go on a bagel run or something when Fat Tim is on? Man talk about silence being deafening.
Wow, hadn’t noticed. Now that you mention it, Charles use to be a big part of the Potato Head discusions.
My “ears were ringing”…so that means somebody was talking about me…or I’m getting tinnitus…which might be from being out on the tarmac at Detroit Metro Airport for 21 years… 😉
ChanX: Thanks for your support, and Frec, and STDOMSGIRL…and all else that have discussed what happened at “that eventful night ” at Imus Truth…when vicious attack dogs were sent in to go after Bruce.
What infuriates me…is the fact my LAST post was my “farewell address” to that site…and was conveniently removed. Many did have the chance to read it that night…and can attest to that fact. No…I would never go back to that site…even if the owner of the site emailed me and apologized for his lack of stewardship.
On another subject…I do apologize if I came on too strong about my feelings about what has befallen our great country in the last 8 years. It has sickened me to the very core of my soul.
And, on the subject of what Frec expressed:
“Here’s the rationale I don’t get: the reason we are supposed to vote for Barack Obama is to make our enemies abroad like us? (George Steph said to Imus that’s why many people are voting for Obama). Who thinks that will work? Or how long the supposed “halo effect” would last? That’s turning people-pleasing into a “National Character Defect.”
…my reply is that it has not just limited to making “our enemies like us”…it has to do with reassuring the world that the mentality that took us into Iraq in the first place will be not so arrogant, nor ever be repeated.
After 9/11, we had the entire civilized world at our backs…in complete support. It was how our leaders squandered that support by bad decisions, ineptitude, arrogance…on and on.
We need to send a signal to reassure our most treasured and loyal past supporters of the civilized world…WE HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING.
THAT is what we so desperately need right now. It’s a big world. There are MANY “evil” despots and dictators. The United States of America has NEVER gone to war against a country…unless we were attacked either directly, or indirectly.
George W. Bush has that distinct “honor” in history now.
That, is what mindset we must get away from….and change.
Didn’t Donaldinks mention earlier that one of his posts was “awaiting moderation”? Too bad, I enjoy reading Donald.
I just read back through the posts, and there are a lot of negative comments about Imustruth. A lot of times it’s referred to as “over there” and saying the posts are a lot of drivel. I don’t think that’s necessary.
Donald, Your back! I enjoy your posts. What happened with the moderation notice?
iloveimus:
ChanX explained it in post #68. And thank you for you kind comments.
Donaldinks post was held up in the spam filter. Probably because of the length of the URL. The comment was released. As previously stated those situations are easily remedied.
This is a site where people are free to state their opinions whether its “drivel” or not.
ChanX
Thank you Donald and do agree with you on the Iraq war in many respects. Never apologize for a view you have.
And to my Dear Friend ILOVEIMUS and this ends my conversation on the subject.
Guess you enjoy the “I hate Karith”, “Pussification of Imus is complete” and comments that are not at all what a true Imus Fan should be reveling in or agreeing with.
If you are commenting here to put down my comments or anyone else’s, that is your right. But to point at my comments only is the words of a 1st Amendment dissenter.
Good luck.
Yes, I don’t like the idea of people getting banned. Whether people like Imus or don’t, they should have the right to express those opinions. It is frustrating to have a webmaster who doesn’t interact with the site. That said, I still enjoy reading it.
Donald, I agree so much with what you say. It’s clear you have passion for this great country of ours. You also write very eloquently.
Bruce, I simply read what I want to and ignore the rest. If I went through life not listening to different viewpoints, that would get old fast.
Re: Bush’s Iraq Invasion ~ ‘Pre-emptive’ war – America had never fought a pre-emptive war in our history. Look what he’s done to our country – he has caused a global hatred for us. I knew he was a bully when he & his minions bullied the wimpy Democrats in Florida into stopping the counting of the votes in 2000. But I never dreamed that he was to become a DANGEROUS bully in the name of America. Lady Liberty & MY name has forever been sullied.
SDG,
As a practical matter the US over the last 200 years has invaded or otherwise engaged on a preemptive basis to expand continental borders, protect shipping interests, avenge insults and other assorted reasons…
The “wimpy Democrats” got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar. After all it was the Democrats paper ballot system that proved to be the problem. This is the same system that had benefited the Democratic machine for years.
ChanX
ChanX:
Give me a paper trail anytime in any election. The new electronic voting machines have been proven, time after time, to be vulnerable to being hacked…and without actual paper trail…untrustworthy.
As far as past United States War policy, it is a matter of history…and fact…that the United States policy for more than 200 years has been defensive, or retaliatory…not preemptive. The first President of our country to declare war against another country outside of our historical values as protecting our Nation, was by George W. Bush. That …is fact.
Thanks, Donald…you know I value your opinion highly…I wouldn’t bother to put stuff out in public if I was unwilling to listen to the feedback…I mean that sincerely, not being a smarta** about it.
I totally agree with you, Donald, that our leaders – our untrustworthy servants – squandered the best opportunity we had for keeping the high-cost goodwill of the world that some of our citizens paid for with their lives. But remember, even on that day, there were people dancing joyfully in the streets at our tragedy.
Donald, I am not saying you said or meant any of what follows in this paragraph, it’s just what I’m trying to express…When we (as a nation or as individuals) “make changes” it is primarily for ourselves, because we need and want to make the changes. It might be a spiritual awakening, or an amends, or it might be just because we’re tired and ready for something different. But expecting or even hoping for others to recognize, see, accept, acknowledge, or admit that they know we’ve changed is a false expectation. They might say, that’s nice but it’s too little, too late. They might not be ready to forgive us. They might not be willing to trust us ever again. They might just hate us because we’re us. We have to accept that, and let them go their way. In the meantime, do what’s right for us…starting wth electing leaders that WE believe We can TRUST.
Serenity or the Steps was mentioned this morning – here’s a revision I learned…Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it’s me.
From Princeton University research study on Diebold Accu Vote- TS machines:
Click to access ts-paper.pdf
Frec:
That was a well written and insightful post. Most of the respectable people of the world that looked to the United States as the voice of reason waited, until the first term of George W. Bush was up… looking to see if the people and citizens of our country had come to reason. You know the result. We need to send the rest of the CIVILIZED world a message…we have finally come to our senses, and make a WISE choice in leadership. It will go a long way towards alleviating fears about recent misdirections, indiscretions and wanton stupidity to those countries that have looked up to us… conversely, that does not mean we are a cowardly, nor a retreating Nation. It means that we send a message that sanity has been restored…here, in our homeland…and around the world.
D,
Regarding paper ballots and hanging chads, as unreliable and fraudulent inducing method as ever devised for elections. South Florida officials were notoriously having problems with elections long before 2000.
X
D,
Regarding US preemptive wars. A few examples would include the Barbary War, the Mexico War of 1806, the 1810 Spanish War, the War of 1812 (US invaded Canada, cause we could), Seminole War, Oregon War 1818, Cuban Invasion 1822, Indian Wars, Spanish American War 1898, 1901 Columbia War (Panama Canal). We got a little better after the turn of the century, of course we were consumed with WWI and WWII. But you could certainly include Vietnam as a Preemptive war.
X
In complete agreement with that, Donald.
I guess it wasn’t as clear three years ago as it is now in hindsight.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
….and as for our “Enemies”….Perhaps we go after the very people who DID attack us and capture or kill them…and quit the adventuring that has had a stranglehold on our economy, country, and on other precious resources: the American People.. Our Country has a finite amount of resources…some to protect, some to keep our Country and its’ own citizens employed so they may be able to pursue the American Dream: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. It is not very clear to me that declaring war on Iraq accomplished anything, other that to strain our military and the nations resources…and for what? Are we “more safe and secure?. NO. We have destabilized a region and have give our enemy places to attack us, albeit overseas…yet they would not have had that chance otherwise. Saddam had no connection with Al Qaeda..nor did he want one.
You ask about how the Arabic people were rejoicing over what befalls our country? Ask the British. They learned a hard lesson over colonialism in that region in their past.
Better to fight them here than there? At what cost? If we cannot even secure our own borders…how can we expect to do it over there?
Well, enough for tonight. One thing I will add: It would do well for all Americans to read about the mighty Roman Empire. They very same pattern that led to its downfall in history is happening before our very eyes….right here in our own time…within our own Great Nation. I do pray for sanity and reason to come to be within our reach…in our near future, for us…our country…and the world as a whole.
Chanx:
I think what is missing from your presentation of past “preemptive” wars…in our country’s past…. would have to include footnotes as to how many of them were we “asked” by allies or others to become involved.
As to the Viet Nam war?…The Gulf of Tonkin…which, incidentally, historians have proved to have been a fabricated lie.
From Wickpedia:
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident defined the beginning of large-scale involvement of U.S. armed forces in Vietnam. It was a pair of supposed attacks carried out by naval forces of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) against two American destroyers, the USS Maddox and the USS Turner Joy. The incident occurred on August 2 and 4, 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin.[1]
The outcome of the incident was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by “communist aggression”. The resolution served as Johnson’s legal justification for escalating American involvement in the Vietnam Conflict, which lasted until 1975.
In 2005, it was revealed in an official NSA declassified report[2] that the Maddox first fired warning shots on the August 2 incident, that there may have been no North Vietnamese boats at the August 4 incident, and that there was certainly no attack. The report said
[I]t is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night. […] In truth, Hanoi’s navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on 2 August.[3]
Thing I don’t understand about Iraq? US had Sadaam bottled up with patrols over a no fly zone including Shiite and Kurdish territory. Why invade? Why take on the problems of the region?
Examples provided are wars where US expansion was the main consideration especially the Spanish American War.
One of my favorites is the Barbary War. This war was fought over shipping rights which and tributes the Barbary Pirates were extracting from merchant shipping. All other nations were paying the tributes, not happily but considered to be an acceptable cost of shipping. US couldn’t afford the tributes, so we went to war!
My other favorite is the Columbia War. The US having chosen the route for the Panama Canal was unable to negotiate an expectable treaty with the Columbians. The US teamed up with “Panamanian Revolutionaries” who freed the Panama Territory and quickly turned the route over to the US…
Chanx:
Why indeed? (In regard to Iraq).
As to your post(134) :
“Barbary War, the Mexico War of 1806, the 1810 Spanish War, the War of 1812 (US invaded Canada, cause we could), Seminole War, Oregon War 1818, Cuban Invasion 1822, Indian Wars, Spanish American War 1898, 1901 Columbia War (Panama Canal).”
This was during the “formative years” of America. How many treaties did we sign? How many treaties did we break? Our hands, as a young Nation were NOT clean. (An aside note: How many treaties did George W. Bush tear up during his first term?). Click on the link at post #49…that will give you pause for thought…
What I am, or was, discussing…is NOW as recent (as you pointed out) Viet Nam. Outside of North America was my point on global interventions in todays civilized world…and our actions within that scope…the “International Community”. My point was (as you so so eloquently pointed out as to Iraq) the notion of misadventures around the world, and the repercussions from the rest of the world towards our attitudes.
That, simply put…was my point.
NOW… Let’s make it BETTER…LOL and choose wisely this election. 😉
Although I promised to never post on this site again due to OCD Bruce, I find that I have to respond this one time to X’s question because to me at least the answer is pretty straight forward.
9/11 made the US kind of like a “deer in headlights” and gave the likes of Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove, et al the excuse they needed to talk C- Bush into the war. They simply wanted to do it and 9/11 was a great excuse come hell or high water. Always remember that great powers with big armies like to use them on occasion.
I remember railing in the car on the way to taking my son to school some seven or eight months before it started that this was going to be a very bad idea and would never end. I was a very early proponent that this was indeed an incredibly bad idea.
Anhow, in addition to all that and again because of 9/11, the intelligent voices that might have been heard did not step up. These voices include Colin Powell and Condi Rice. These are two highly intelligent people who knew better but did not say anything. Powell because of 9/11 and Rice because in my view she wanted the job.
In any case, there is much blame to go around from all the PHd’s in the state department who knew better and all the people who have made a life’s work of studying the region and the people who knew better and yet said NOTHING. The list includes the Press who did not question or say anything. Anyone remember David Bloom on the front of the tank?
Because of 9/11 everyone including Clinton and many others let Romney, Cheney and Rove have their way via a so called President named Bush.
A very sad time for the US, a very sad time for the 3,000 plus dead and thousands maimed and wounded. Sadly, this will not end soon. I don’t care who is elected this is not going to stop.
One last note…lol…did I ever mention that I Majored in Music Education, yet my Minor was Social Sciences and History?…LOL.
I just want us to get this country back on a good track…and be strong, when needed…and to have a clear vision of what, and whom our enemies are. Be vigilant…be able to quickly respond to the Nations interests as a whole…and that includes foreign…and domestic.
Is that too much to ask as a citizen of our country?
I hope not. 😉
skiwolf:
Your Son is lucky to have a father like you. 😉
Nite all!
This is a good discussion. ThanX
Has anybody ever read Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States”? It’s an interesting view and it will make you think about what you thought you already knew.
Oh one last point about the dead, maimed and injured that no one I mean no one every talks about and that I forgot to mention.
Someone go ask the 200,000 plus dead Iraqis and god knows how many other maimed and injured if they miss Saddam Hussein .
Wonder what the answer would be?
Good discussion indeed… you guys sure know your U.S. history! Well studied and well presented…thank you.
For me, it always come down to the human factor. Spanish American War reminds me when I was maybe seven or eight, visiting with my cousin at our grandmother’s house. We wandered too far afield and came out into the yard of a seemingly ancient man. He invited us inside his house (can you imagine such a horror today?) All he wanted was to have someone hear his stories and see his souvenirs from a war that was already a mere footnote in the history books. He’d even kept some of the dried biscuits they ate. At my age, I could just as easily have been listening to a veteran of the American Revolution… and equally as impressive to me. Patriotism is patriotism, and has been throughout our history. That is why I honor our soldiers even when the conflict itself is less than honorable.
Frec,
Or as Mark Twain would say…
Welcome SkiWolf,
Here is the reduced version of Tuesdays program on Imus.
http://cache.pando.com/soapservices/Package/package.pando?id=3B6C362B8635C3E55CED64C43016CB786818DE6F&key=FAE99259C6139EF05CA620572969954C88F2BA871D795F1FAD03B6333E17E6BA
Have started a new thread covering
Media Matters for America – Or Is It?
PT,
Have not read your book suggestion (Zinn) but I will indeed check that out. My classes must’ve skipped a few of those wars “X” mentioned…they are news to me…so much to learn, so little time… thank you, guys!